"Once and a while she would be on the point of questioning her husband, but, after thinking it over, she realized she would be asking silly questions, and he was so overburdened with business problems that she did not want to distract him. Besides, there was not much she herself could not accomplish" (86)
"There's so much scandal and fraud everywhere you turn, and I suppose the papers only print what they want us to know" (86)
"In fact, now that there was no danger involved she had trouble finishing the book; she thought it would be better in a magazine digest" (87)
"And when the moment finally came she pulled the lever recording her wish for the world to remain as it was" (88)
"Unanimity was so gratifying" (89)
"She wondered if he had wept when he learned what had happened, and if he tried to apologize for having allowed her to go home alone that night, or whether he had been with her and had been frightened away by the man's gun. Or had he been struck over the head? Did he still respect her?" (91)
"...she clothed Leda in a flower dressmaker bathing suit not unlike her own" (93)
"She never forgot this moment when she had almost apprehended the very meaning of life, and of the stars and planets, yes, and the flight of the earth" (94)
"To be afraid is, I tell you, Madame, the most terrible thing in the world" (96)
"'Well,' observed Mrs. Bridge the moment the story ended, 'I'm certainly grateful times have changed'" (103)
"'No name,' said Harriet, 'and he looks suspicious'" (103)
"...then she snatched the comb and broke it in half" (113)
"...and wondered if, as a chaperon, she could flatly order one of the stags to dance with Naomi. She had a feeling there would be trouble if she attempted this." (118)
"...consciously beyond the limit: Mrs. Bridge knew it immediately from the girl's apprehensive eyes...the horrifying part of it had been that the girl's back was turned to her partner" (120)
"but because she wanted Carolyn to learn to judge people she said nothing" (120)
"but a moment afterward she thought of the night some twenty years ago when she had barely resisted the pleas of a boy whose very name she had long forgotten" (122)
"I believe not until next week on the customary evening" (125)
"Is my daughter mine?" (134)
"He laughed, and his laughter rang out odd and bold, the laughter of a different man, a free and happy man" (139)
A ridiculous amount of quotes, I know. But there were so many important ones in this chapter. Anyways.
1. I think at this point, it is well established that Mrs. Bridge, to some degree, has internalized sexism. We are now seeing constant allusions to her innate fear of rape, and a sense that sexism limits her personal agency; she doesn't believe she can do anything because of how linked she is with her husband. Yet, I think more in this chapter we see the issue of sexuality emerge for her children; we see Carolyn's argument with Jay, and Ruth's -- propensity -- for Chippendale's dancers. Chippendale's, by the way, is male strip club. Just for fun, I put in the description on their website below... Anyways. A quote that particularly jumped out at me was when Ruth was reading her mother's letter, describing it as "guidance of another era" (140). One might argue that Ruth and Carolyn's problems are fundamentally different than Mrs. Bridge's -- not only because of the time change, but because of how they handle it -- Carolyn with maturity, Ruth simply bypassing the problem altogether by embracing sexuality. Yet, at the same time they seem similar, all women fearing for themselves. So question one: can you compare the issues with sexuality that Mrs. Bridge faces to the ones that her children face? Are they the same? Are there fundamental differences? And the real question: if there are differences (and I think they are), can you blame them all on the time difference and cultural shifts? Or is there something innately fearful about Mrs. Bridge that her children lack, allowing her to handle the situation differently?
"Chippendales Las Vegas is a mantastic, sex-god, abs party that will make you lose your damn mind… in the best way of course! "
A complicated question, I know, but I think it gets at the heart of the text -- is this simply a cultural issue, with Mrs. Bridge being the victim of her society or is there something deeper about her?
2. What do you make of Tarquin's fate? It was incredibly disconcerting to me, particularly because it so closely mirrors Ruth getting ready to punch her mother. Can you compare these two incidences? How do you think Mrs. Bridge can gain the respect of her kids back? Was Tarquin's fate inevitable?
3. The last quote I put up, the one about Mr. Bridge: can y'all get to the bottom of this? Why was he so happy, and free? Is it because he got rid of a child? Why do you think he cares so much more about where Carolyn goes than where Ruth goes?
And dobermans!!!!!
1. This is the classic nature versus nurture question. Would Mrs. Bridge be this passive and powerless if she were the product of another generation? I tend to think no, since she consistently displays a sort of longing for the lives of the independent, self-assured women she encounters, like the countess. I think that her enamoration with the countess is revealing, since it betrays a deep part of her that longs for adventure, for scandal and self-determination. But, because of the norms that have been ingrained in her for the entirety of her life, she cannot fathom acting on these deep desires. I think that, in a different setting, Mrs. Bridge might have turned out more like Ruth, who forges her own path. I think Mrs. Bridge’s fear is a learned fear, not an innate one.
ReplyDelete2. I had assumed that Tarquin would come back later in the novel, but I did not anticipate this turn of events. I figured he would just step up his arson game or rob a bank, not coldly murder both of his parents. I think that this incident and Ruth’s almost slapping her mother are not very comparable, since Ruth’s violent impulse stemmed from sudden emotion and inebriation, while Tarquin likely acted out of cold, calculated malice. And I’m not entirely sure what statement the author was trying to make by including this turn of events, since it just seems like a condemnation of new-age educational philosophy. Perhaps he’s trying to show the impossibility of parenting, since a hands-on, no rules approach yields a murderer, while the Bridges’ hands-off, structured approach puts a great strain on the parent-child relationships.
3. I think he’s happy because he senses that Ruth will be much more comfortable in New York City. I don’t know much about Mr. Bridge, but I think he understands what it’s like to be confined, and he’s delighted by the thought that Ruth might escape the monotony of his life. As Mrs. Bridge notes, her husband and Ruth seemed to share a connection and level of comfort with each other that took Mrs. Bridge by surprise. That said, Ruth was certainly not an easy child, between repeating a year and a half of high school, cavorting with strange men in the foyer, and staying out at night until dawn. So bidding her goodbye probably was a sort of relief.
1. Great question. I think there are differences between Mrs. Bridge’s issues with sexuality and her childrens’, and I do not think that they can all be attributed to changes in culture over time. I think that Mrs. Bridge is quite different from her children, especially from Ruth and Douglas, and these differences in personality are prevalent in their views of sexuality. Ruth is progressive, a bit rebellious—she reminds me of the image of the free woman that came about during Second Wave Feminism, so I guess that makes her even more forward-thinking. She is independent and free in all she does. She seems to be truly happy, content with her life, and I don’t know if there are any other characters in the book I can say that about. Ruth does what makes her happy and doesn’t do what makes her unhappy. She doesn’t like to study much, so she doesn’t study much. She doesn’t like to spend time with her mother, so she doesn’t. SH does like to hang out with men at strip clubs or whatever it is she does so late every night, and so that is what she does. If she has sexual desires and wants to sleep with someone, I think she will do it. Mrs. Bridge would never sleep with someone before marriage and never sleep with anyone who isn’t her husband. I am fairly confident she will die having only had sex with one person (and I can’t imagine her sex life is very exciting considering Mr. Bridge doesn’t get home until late every night and leaves for work early every morning). Mrs. Bridge cannot break societal conventions and those conventions well her that she mustn’t be free with her sexuality. Carolyn follows the footsteps of her mother for the most part, but she seems to have a close relationship with Jay, closer than Mrs. Bridge would have deemed appropriate (I think they have at least kissed because of the way she spoke to him that night when they came in together).
ReplyDelete2. I was appalled and disgusted by Tarquin. Who kills their own parents? I think that he is mentally disturbed. We saw that he was odd and had an affinity towards cruelty and violence when he treated Douglas so horribly, and that has clearly manifested itself as some kind of mental illness. His actions serve a clear purpose for Mrs. Bridge—don’t let your kids step out of line, don’t let them be individuals, teach them how to judge others. But I don’t think that he goes insane because his parents give him freedom to express himself.
3. I think that Ruth and Mr. Bridge have a relationship that Mrs. Bridge is completely unaware of. They are close to one another. They understand one another. And Mrs. Bridge does not have that kind of relationship with Ruth, with any of her children (maybe Carolyn). It is foreign to her and surprising to her. She has not heard her husband laugh in a long time.
I think that Mrs. Bridge’s fear is a mix of inherent fear and societal conditioning, but what it comes back to for me is time. If it was entirely social conditioning and nothing else then people like Grace Barron wouldn’t exist - she’s been conditioned too, hasn’t she? Some of this, then, is innate - she’s inclined to believe what she’s told. Her attempts at communication, for example, come nearly to a pinnacle when she leaves a book on the table, in some vague hopes that her husband will begin reading it. THIS is her idea of forwardness and action - compared to Ruth and Carolyn’s debut on the relationship stage, I can see how their (and their companions’) forwardness could upset her, even when she recalls similar feelings she’d had in her youth. Time here not only matters in terms of the generation, but Mrs. Bridge’s own perception of and relationship with time - despite her memories of wanting to be with men, she moved away from that now that she has a husband, and now men are frightening and distant and violent, in some cases. It is less so the time period, and more so India’s own shift in perception of men that makes her so critical and watchful of Ruth and Carolyn’s relationships.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think these two incidences are truly comparable. We saw that Tarquin was not only violent, as expressed by his burning of the garage during a tantrum, but expressly attempted to kill off Douglas - he’d been like that from the earliest ages we saw him. Contrary to that, Ruth has simply been aloof and oddly dressed. Her movement to punch Mrs. Bridge seemed much less like a genuine threat and much more like posturing - if she’d really intended harm, she’d have gone through with it. I think Ruth is just incredibly strange to her mother, and she accepted that at a young age - it made her difficult to communicate with, and it probably messed with her head, knowing that her mother disapproved of nearly everything she did. I think it was mostly Mrs. Bridge’s misunderstanding and unwillingness to allow Ruth to be as she wished that caused the chasm between them, and the emotional fallout inherent in that - contrast this with Tarquin’s relationship with his own mother, which was incredibly close and defined by pretty much nothing BUT approval. Even the burning of the garage was met with near praise. Tarquin’s behavior was him being allowed to do whatever he wished, with absolutely no restrictions - Ruth’s behavior was due to too many restrictions, and attempting to escape them. I think that Mrs. Bridge could regain her children’s respect if she gave them respect in return. Thus far she has monitored their behavior, policed their friendships, and destroyed their hard work because the “neighbors were beginning to notice.” All her children really get from her is disapproval - she very expressly doesn’t want the neighbors to notice them or what they’re doing. How incredibly damaging for someone’s mind, to be constantly told what you do, and how you are is somehow shameful? Mrs. Bridge needs to stop thinking of her children as a concept (hypotheticals, like how she knew that “children liked when adults were interested in what they were doing,” rather than, “I’m genuinely interested in the tower that Douglass intends to build,”) and start thinking of them as the people they really are.
ReplyDeleteOn that note - I think it’s possible that Mr. Bridge’s distance from his children has removed him from thinking of them as “children” and more as “Ruth, Carolyn, and Douglas.” His seeming lack of personal involvement almost gives him a clearer vision of the strange, wonderful people they’ve become. It seems clear to him, then, that Ruth - not “his daughter,” but “Ruth,” - would be happier living on her own in New York, at least for a while. This would contribute to his good mood, and allow the two of them to reach an understanding. In addition, because he still does understand that this young woman really IS his daughter, I’d say there’s pride in having your child grow up to be independent. Mr. Bridge likely feels that he’s done something good, to have Ruth so ready to explore the world.
1.Clearly, all three struggle with sexuality in a time when female sexuality is quite taboo. Ruth fully embraces her own sexuality, while Carolyn is more torn. Carolyn acknowledges her own desire, but also honors her mother's wishes and (at least far as we see) chooses not to have sex. The main differences we see between them and their mother is that Mrs. Bridge is largely afraid of sexuality. She is afraid of it in others, imagining a rapist as a degenerate, unkempt, "sex maniac" unlike the well groomed vision of one we see in The Bell Jar (90). She has trouble even accepting her own sexuality, let alone others'. When she sees a young couple going too far dancing, she calls it "horrifying," (120) and later, we see her "clutching the banister in horror" when Jay asks Carolyn to have sex (122). Whether she was always like this, we can't be sure. We do hear that when she was younger she "barely resisted the pleas of a boy whose very name she had long since forgotten. It was the moonlight that had weakened her, the moonlight and her own desire" (122). Whether she had the same feelings about sexuality then as we see now, she has gotten to the point where she can hardly remember that. This fear of sexuality that separates her from her children may be somewhat generational, but it certainly had not changed that much. There is something in Mrs. Bridge now that makes her feelings about sex and eroticism very different than those of either of her daughters.
ReplyDelete2. Tarquin was largely given freedom to do as he pleased. His parents viewed his tantrums as him being an independent thinker and rewarded, or at the very least accepted them. This, in all likelihood combined with some mental illness, lead to a young man who had the freedom and and lack of a moral compass to shoot his parents when he got mad at them. It's hard to say how much this was taught versus innate, but there is definitely an element of both. This is very different from Ruth. She is more subversive and secretive, and has been limited all her life. Mrs. Bridge has firm thoughts about what a "good child" is, and Ruth doesn't fit that. Her anger comes from years of being forced to do what her mom tells her or hide when she doesn't. She almost lashes out physically due to this, but still won't hit her mother. Mrs. Bridge is neither harsh enough to gain her children's fear nor friendly enough for them to like her, and she doesn't know how to gain their respect.
3. Mr. Bridge is not only feeling proud to send off his oldest child, but confident in her abilities. He isn't worried about her ability to take care of herself, just her tendency to not behave herself. Often, parents are nervous and over-protective as their children leave, but this is the laugh of a man who isn't terribly worried about his daughter. He's happy for her. He's spent his life working so that his family has the ability to do what they want, and now he's given her the opportunity to go to New York and live the life she wants to lead.
1. I think Mrs. Bridge’s thoughts on sex relate to most other problems in her life, especially her lack of a relationship with her children (or two of them, at least) and her overwhelming need to maintain a specific appearance for society. I think Mrs. Bridge doesn’t want Ruth to act as she does because what would the neighbors say? Mrs. Bridge has been taught to think of sex in a certain way, I think, and her daughter is going against this. While Ruth doesn’t seem to care what others think, Mrs. Bridge still does, in part because that’s who she is and how she was raised. I think that part of this may be due to the changes in time, but I also think it has to do with the actual personalities of the characters. I’m sure Mrs. Bridge is making the same amount of effort as her parents to instill her values and beliefs in her children, but why aren’t Douglas, Ruth, and Carolyn soaking it up the way India did when she was younger? They understand the benefits of not doing so. I also think Mrs. Bridge recognizes that knowing about Ruth’s sex life, knowing that she has a life that Mrs. Bridge not only doesn’t want for her but is also not supposed to know about, exacerbates the regret that Mrs. Bridge feels, how she barely knows her daughter.
ReplyDelete2. The most interesting thing for me about inclusions of the Leacock’s dynamics are how the Bridges respond to them. Mainly, I think their discussions of the Leacocks, especially Tarquin, reveal a lot about Mr. and Mrs. Bridge’s relationship. Initially, Mrs. Bridge didn’t seem to think much of Tarquin’s attempt to hurt her son, never mind his disregard for a potential death. Mrs. Bridge said that she was certain that “he wouldn’t really do anything wrong” (55). This reaction particularly shocked me, because at this point we already had seen him do something wrong. I liked how Mr. Bridge seemed to grasp the gravity of the situation, whereas Mrs. Bridge seemed to brush it off. I felt that Mrs. Bridge was focusing on the wrong thing, as if she was ignoring Tarquin’s horrible character and how dangerous he was just so she could continue to be social with the Leacocks, and still maintain her place in society. Then, when the couple found out about what Tarquin did to his parents, I felt that Mr. Bridge was now focusing on the wrong thing: “His personality can go to pot, so far as that’s concerned, but my son is not going to go around pulling stunts like this!” (129). I, though I could be wrong, do think that Tarquin’s personality had to do with his ability to murder. This to me still seems like Mr. Bridge is deferring to society in some way, with his response to the news. Here, Mrs. Bridge is struck dumb by what happened, which I think is a good sign, as she’s not just thinking about what this means for society. And I think Ruth’s preparing to strike her mother was very different – I didn’t even equate the two events in my mind when I was reading, though I see how they could be connected. I think Ruth’s action came from the exact opposite reason Tarquin’s came from: Ruth has never really had the support of her mother, from what we’ve seen. I think it’s safe to assume that nearly anything she does is disapproved of by Mrs. Bridge. All that disapproval – especially over such things Ruth would probably consider trivial – can pile up into anger. Tarquin’s action probably came from too much support for his parents, as they didn’t seem to try and curb his malicious tendencies.
ReplyDelete3. I think Mr. Bridge might feel some sort of success during this scene. He feels like he as achieved at least part of his goal of being a father, he has provided for his daughter enough for her to leave home and support herself doing what she loves. I think Mr. Bridge has always been concerned about his children’s happiness, even if I personally disagree with how he tries to make them happy. I think he feels like he has done his part being Ruth’s father, as if he’s graduated in a way. Now he only has to worry about two of his children. Furthermore, I think he’s happy that Ruth is pursuing something she loves, not just something Mrs. Bridge wants her to do. Mr. Bridge seems less preoccupied with keeping up appearances than his wife, and though he does have the final word with matters regarding his children, he does appear to be less strict than Mrs. Bridge, and I think he is smart enough to realize that Ruth would be unhappier doing what her mother wanted as opposed to what she wanted.
I believe that Mrs. Bridge's conflicts with sexuality are fundamentally different from those of her children because she has been alienated from her sexuality, and with it, her sense of agency. At the beginning of the book, after some years of marriage to Walter, she “looked into the darkness, wondered about the nature of men, doubtful of the future,until at last there came a night when she shook her husband awake and spoke of her own desire”(2). I find the wording here key, it's not stated explicitly that she wants sex, but that she has a desire that seems to be inextricably linked to her concerns about the future. Maybe sex would help reaffirm their love? Maybe she just wanted to establish a more active role in the partnership? Maybe it would just prove that she has some value? I don't know, but Walter denies her, and because of this, I believe, both her sexuality and any feeling of control. And this is why she seems so fearful; any hint of sexuality reminds her of her fears of her future (with Walter) and how she has no control over it or her sexuality. There fears are why she wants to sympathize with Lois, she feels just as vulnerable about her sexuality and her future as a rape victim. Carolyn and Ruth, on the other hand, I don't think feel as out of control. Ruth makes a distinct decision to leave for New York and set up in Greenwich Village, where she presumably can be freer with her sexuality, and Carolyn has shown that she can control both her future(through school) and her sexuality(her encounter with Jay.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Tarquin and Ruth can be compared. Tarquin was a sociopath and has been shown to have murderous tendencies, while Ruth was drunk and tired when she nearly hit her mother. I find Tarquin, however, an incredibly ironic character. He's the sociopathic son of a psychologist, who should have been able to recognize the symptoms and intervened and who should have known the importance of developing a strong and firm Ego and Superego in Tarquin's mind. Tarquin should have never existed. But the question remains: who is Tarquin? Are we supposed to interpret him as some sort of foil for Mrs. Bridge and the conventions of society that tie her down? Tarquin is beholden to nothing, and ends up living how he wants with disastrous consequences, while Mrs. Bridge lives according to rules that do not provide meaning for her, but allow her to live successfully. If this is true, then I believe that Tarquin's fate was inevitable: like Grace, you can't exist outside the rules of society without repercussions.
I just thought that Mr. Bridge thinks he's accomplished his goal with Ruth: to see his kids off to self-sufficiency and self-enjoyment. At the beginning of the book it implied that he only wanted to see them happy, so how could he not find enjoyment in seeing Ruth go off so happily? Is this not a normal reaction of a father when he sees his kid bloom?
1. Children are far more perceptive than often credited for, so I think they must see that their mother isn’t quite happy or fulfilled, and who would want to be like that? I would be over-the-moon happy if my life turned out anything like my mother’s, but Mrs. Bridge’s daughters, I can’t see them wanting her life. I think that’s where the differences really come into play with Ruth. She doesn’t want to end up like Mrs. Bridge, and I can’t blame her. Mrs. Bridge never says what she means; she skirts around unspeakable truths like pregnancy before marriage. She avoids confrontations at the expense of her own comfort like with the new laundress sitting in the front seat. She leaves her children to make their own minds up about people while hoping they follow her example, but what is her example? To never let anyone know what you truly think of them? But it’s not even that, it’s as though she’s just telling herself that she’s teaching her children right from wrong by setting an example, but in reality, she’s just avoiding actually speaking to them, actually engaging with them, actually parenting them. She’s never had to take responsibility for her own life before, her parent and husband have always done that for her, so why would motherhood be any different?
ReplyDelete2. No, I don’t really think Ruth and Tarquin can be compared that closely, but I think she can draw some general similarities between the two, the most important being that they were failed by their parents in some respect. Tarquin’s parents never taught him right from wrong, and Ruth’s never taught her why some things were right and others wrong. Even that, though, is a bit of a stretch because Tarquin is clearly disturbed, and for a child to become a killer like him, I think he must have just been born off. At least I choose to believe that. Ruth would never do what Tarquin does, but she does consciously separate herself from her parents by moving to New York. I suppose, I’m still on the fence about comparing the two, but I think we’re meant to. I think we’re meant to see Tarquin’s upbringing as a polar opposite to Mrs. Bridge’s children’s and see that Mrs. Bridge is only trying to do what she thinks is best for her children.
3. I don’t at all think that Mr. Bridge cares more about what Carolyn does than what Ruth does. I think he wants all his children to be happy and he knows that Ruth is unhappy in Kansas City and that joining a super Christian group wouldn’t make Carolyn happy—she was like 14/15 at the time. I honestly believe Mr. and Mrs. Bridge love their children, I’m just not sure if they have a language to express it.
1) I don't think the problems Carolyn and Ruth face are all that different from what Mrs. Bridge would have had to deal with as a child their age. When Carolyn comes home and has to resist her boyfriend’s attempts to have sex with her, Mrs. Bridge remembers a time when she had to do the same thing. The difference lies in how they would handle the situation. While Carolyn cleverly used her words and attitude to resist, Mrs. Bridge says she would have outright slapped the guy. This leads to my answer to the next question. Ruth concludes that Mrs. Bridge looks for “guidance from another era” not because the issues she faced in her era were different, but because the way you handle these issues is different. I think embracing sexuality like Ruth has (and Carolyn to a lesser degree) is not something someone would do in Mrs. Bridge's childhood era. Also, as Mr. Bridge pointed out, there was a rise in child-raising rhetoric that supports giving children more freedom of expression and choice, something Mrs. Bridge's “era” did not have. I think the differences between Mrs. Bridge and Ruth/Carolyn stem from these cultural shifts. I am strong believer that we are all products (not victims) of our background and environment, and that still applies to Mrs. Bridge and her children.
ReplyDelete2) Tarquin’s fate was definitely off-putting, but just like Mr. Bridge, I could've easily predicted something like this would happen eventually. Sometimes you're just too smart for your own good. Of course it wasn't inevitable, but at some point it just became very likely. Next, I don't think Ruth’s situation and actions are all that similar to Tarquin’s though. Along with inherent mental issues, Tarquín was raised in away that could produce actions like his, and none of the Bridge kids were raised like that. Mr. Bridge wasn't having any of it. Like it's been pointed out multiple of times, the kids don't mess with Mr. Bridge. While Tarquín was probably mentally unstable, I think Ruth is just rebellious but still aware of her limits. She still knows not to mess with Walter, and even though she raised her hand at Mrs. Bridge, I don't think she'd dare to actually hit her mother. Now, for your question on respect, I'm going to limit it to Ruth. I think Carolyn respects and admired her mother a lot. I also think Douglass is just inquisitive and likes to question things, but I don't think that equates to a lack of respect for his mother. For Ruth, if not for the chapter where she leaves on the bus and gets her letter, I might have thought she lost respect for Mrs. Bridge, but I don't think so now. Yes, she's rebellious, and yes, she highlights Mrs. Bridge's “different era” problems. But, while reading that letter and picturing Mrs. Bridge sitting and writing trying to give her daughter the best she could, I think she realized (and knew already) that Mrs. Bridge does love her and wants the best for her in the end. She may disagree on how to handle different issues, but she knows that Mrs. Bridge's actions come from the heart.
3) Being completely honest, I have the same question as you Moey. I'm having trouble pin pointing a reason as well. It could be because he got rid of a child. It may be because he's proud of all the hard work her put in as a lawyer that allowed him to provide her with the opportunity to go to New York. He put 1000 dollars in her account, which is about 20,000 dollars today. That's a lot of freaking money just to land on her feet. It ,ah also just be because of a relation that Mr. Bridge has fostered that The narrator simply hasn't given us information about. I'm not sure, I hope we talk about it in class today.
1. I think there is a difference between how Mrs. Bridge approaches sexuality and how her daughters approach it. Mrs. Bridge seems afraid of her own sexuality because it is something that she has less control of than most other things. She mentions how she almost lost control one time when she was around her daughters’ age. And for this same reason, she is afraid of her daughters’ sexuality. However, this might not even be the main reason she is afraid of sexuality; I think she is also scared for the reasons we have been saying: internalized sexism and an innate fear of rape. Compared to her kids, Mrs. Bridge’s fear is much deeper and more instinctive, which often leads her to become “horrified” when she sees her daughters’ behave in ways that she would never think to behave in now. So much of this could be due to the changing of the times. Connell includes that “modern dancing … [is] more suggestive than the dancing of Mrs. Bridge’s youth” when Mrs. Bridge attends the sorority dance. It is interesting that Mrs. Bridge is able to cope with the change in style here, but not with her own kids. This leads me to believe that there is something else going on with Mrs. Bridge besides the changing of the times.
ReplyDelete2. I don’t think Ruth and Tarquin’s actions were that similar because Tarquin’s seemed cold and calculated––he shot his parents while they were sleeping, while Ruth’s seemed to come more from a result of the tension in the immediate situation. I feel like as readers we are better able to understand Ruth’s action than Tarquin’s although this could be because we are given much more information about the situation with Ruth. Tarquin’s action causes the Bridges to view their children with suspicion which says so much to me because it shows how little faith they have in how they raised their own children.
3. Mr. Bridge might be happy and free man because he feels like he is getting closer to not having children in his life. He never seems to appreciate his children or empathize with them or have real conversations with them, so maybe he just wants them out of his life. But I don’t think this is the case here at all. “Mrs. Bridge, glancing from one to the other, was struck by their easy companionship, as though they had gotten to know each other quite well when she was not around” (140). This quote stuck out to me because what if they have actually gotten to know each other quite well somehow? I started to think about how both Ruth and Mr. Bridge spend long hours away from home and away from Mrs. Bridge, so could they be spending time together and having real conversations like a father and daughter should? I highly doubt this and it is probably just a conspiracy theory but it would explain Mr. Bridge’s reaction to her leaving for New York. It could also just be that Mr. Bridge is feeling proud that his daughter is making her own decisions and doing what she wants, although he doesn’t seem to value independent decision making too much. It could also be that he’s proud of being able to provide for her with all his hard work, but I have a hard time believing this too because if this was the case why would he feel “free”? So in the end I really don’t know why Mr. Bridge feels this way.
1. I don't think that Mrs. Bridge’s fears stem from more than her society. She is very much a product of her society. That doesn't mean that everyone that was brought up the way that she was would've turned out the same way. Her personality or perhaps her character was more easily shaped. I'm not saying that she made herself this way, but I do believe that this is the reason for people growing up in the same kind of environment and turning differently. Ruth on the other hand is rebellious and that is certainly not due to how Mrs. Bridge is raising her. Even though the culture has progressed, there is still quite a bit of sexism and social norms that are forced on girls and Ruth is no exception. I think the difference between Mrs. Bridge and Ruth can be attributed to more than the changing times.
ReplyDelete2. I don't think we can really compare Tarquin killing his parents to Ruth almost slapping her mother. Tarquin has always been violent whereas Ruth wasn't. This one instance of anger is unlikely to turn out like anything Tarquin has done. The fact that she almost slaps her and doesn't actually do it also says something about how violent she can be (at least towards her mother).
3. I think Mr. Bridge feels that Ruth will be able to handle herself and will be happier in New York. He is closer to Ruth and perhaps knows her better than Carolyn to feel confident in how she will handle herself.
Well, I'm the late one this time. I'll need to penalize myself. Excellent questions—and the doberman pic made me laugh out loud. Thanks for the levity, Moey.
ReplyDelete1. The responses above are really strong and thoughtful. I was thinking about this very question reading this section, and I went back to Chapter 6, "Displaced Dummy." She is disturbed to see young Douglas looking at the dummy of her figure,though initially "amused" (8) by his so "adult" attention to her sewing room, so disturbed or disconcerted by his attention that she moves the dummy to the attic. There is so little intimacy between she and Walter; for all we know they have had little sexual intimacy since Douglas's birth. And I think she misses it. When she's talking to Carolyn about Mr. Bridge's absence, she's irritated the way she always is thinking about this. Has Mr. Bridge ever rekindled the "demand" he had for her that was "not unpleasant" (2) when they were young and in what sounds like passionate love? I don't think so; and like so much of Mrs. Bridge's life, the unpleasant parts of it she doesn't think about. But as Marisa observes above, she recalls when she "barely resisted the pleas of a boy" and recalls her own "desire" (123). I think there was a sexual, passionate India Bridge once; and like so many of her wants and expectations that part of her got lost. It's not lost for her daughters. Is it because they live in a different, more sexually liberal era? I think so. But there's more to it than this in regards to Mrs. Bridge—I think Mr. Bridge lost interest in her (and perhaps lost his love for her). And it's, as Jake wrote, terrifying to her, as so much of the world is to her. It wasn't supposed to go that way for her, for them.
2. Like most above, I too see Tarquin and Ruth as different cases. I don't think this is Connell commenting on the Leacock's liberal parenting. I don't think this is about Tarquin calling his parents by their first names. I agree with Stuart: Tarquin is a sociopath, maybe a psychopath. This world Mrs. Bridge lives in, despite the way it tries to separate itself from the rest of KC, from working class people like Ingrid and perceived and real dangers, cannot keep them out—the real and perceived. Douglas is not anything like Tarquin, but he does go out of his way to irritate his mother with his hat. What can we control about our environment, about how our children turn out? Tarquin raises that question to me. Ruth has reason to be angry—maybe she goes too far with the raised hand, but I think we all, at some point, get enraged by our parents. Generally we don't shoot them in their bed. But that does happen.
3. Indeed! What did we miss? What did Mrs. Bridge miss? I don't think he's happy to lose Ruth. I think he's proud of her. I think they have had conversations that were not as strained as the ones he's had with Mrs. Bridge these years. I think he doesn't feel pressure with her that he feels with his wife. I think children can be easier for parents to relate to and deal with than the other parent. I think it's a mystery as things can be in a family. It is another inscrutable moment in the book.
1. I think the perception of Mrs. Bridge and her children of sex is very different. The only similarity I can draw from them is when Ruth refused Jay which we find out was a parallel to a situation Mrs. Bridge also found herself in once. But I feel like they're different because Mrs. Bridge doesn't see sex as something pleasurable (on her part at least), but more of something that's done to procreate. While with Ruth and Carolyn, the subject is approached with a lot more curiosity. I think because of their mother they view things in general a lot differently, purposely avoiding how she thinks about situations because of the way she forces her perspective onto them. I think they both aren't throwing themselves at men, but I also don't think they feel as if every man is going to rape them or is some sort of threat. They just seem a lot less scared and willing to step outside the boundaries to perceive things for themselves, rather than adopting the views of other people. Ruth and Corky seem more willing to explore their options in life and to try new things while Mrs. Bridge is a lot more apprehensive.
ReplyDelete2. I don't think the two are comparable. Tarquin's incident was a result of having experienced too much as a child, or maybe having too much freedom, one of the two. But Ruth is entirely different I think. I feel like she's just overwhelmed with the pressure her mother puts on her. I think she wants something that she knows she can't receive from her mother and this drives her to almost turn violent. I don't feel like her intention was to ever hurt her mother, I think she was just tired of feeling inadequate and being constantly pestered and looked down upon. I don't think her actions were justified but I definitely see where her frustration is coming from. It's like Mrs. Bridge is always there to point out where Ruth went wrong yet she's never really that interested in what she's actually doing or what she's interested in and that can feel unfair. I think Ruth feels too contained by her mother and again is looking for something she knows isn't there.
3. I have two possible answers. 1. They have a great relationship that we never see because we're reading the story from the perspective of Mrs. Bridge. Maybe when Mr. Bridge is home him and Ruth have a great time and they know each other super well. Maybe they talk on the phone while he's away at the office. Maybe they bond easier because Mr. Bridge doesn't pressure her to be any sort of way like her mother does. 2. Mr. Bridge has a better understanding of what she's going through and the pressure she faces as Mrs. Bridge's daughter. I suspect that he realizes what she goes through better than anyone else and recognizes that she needs to get away from the confinements of her home and mother.